Started as a forum for Christian Mudders, The Fellowship Hall is my gathering place to share my thoughts about Christian gaming and life.
Hatfield: My only response to this issue (at least in open forum)
To: all
Long and short of it, if we are not the ones directly involved, its NOYDBB (none of your dad-blamed business). So far, all I have is "this person said this" or "that person did thus-and-so." I'm not going to get into the details of what I may or may not know, because depending on who you're talking to, not all of it is relevant anyway!
My brother-in-Christ, Cyto expressed the opinion that Paul was admonishing the church to deal collectively with the sins of the body, and he made reference to 2nd Corinthians chapters 12 and 13. Having taken some time to prayerfully consider Paul's words there, I don't think this quite fits our present situation.
In those chapters, Paul is writing to the church at Corinth. Near the end of chapter 12 (at verse 21) Paul states "I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged." Paul continues (chapter 13)"This will be my third visit to you. 'Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 2 I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others, ... 5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test? ... 10 "This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority--the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down."
Here I think Paul is speaking to the body collectively, what we are dealing with is an issue between individuals. If Cyto felt that AotC as a whole was in a sinful nature, these verses might prove relevant, but I don't think it is.
(and yes, I prefer the clarity if the NIV, you are welcomed to read 2Cor 12:21, 2cor 13:1-2, 5 and 10 here)
In the Gospel of Matthew 18:15-17, we read:
15 If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.If we have a problem with our brother or sister, to go to them privately, and seek an end to your conflict. If you are able to resolve your issue this way, you have gained a soul for the Kingdom!
But, if you cannot resolve it this way, bring along a witness or two, someone to not only assist, but to be able to attest that you have indeed tried. Just my opinion THIS is about where Kal and the parties involved had been when others started creating the larger mess.
This is just my personal observation, but I feel that anyone OTHER than Kal, Gen, Quiran (and others directly involved ... meaning not ME) should let them work this whole thing out for themselves, because we are NOT involved.
We, being imperfect humans, are not qualified to pass judgement on the actions of others. And that is what is being done here. People are judging the actions of others without having the entire story of everything involved. Even if you had all the relevant information, if it is not happening to YOU, you still don't have the right to judge others.
Why is this bothering me so? I'll tell you why.
The witness that we are supposed to give those outside of the church is more than just coming up to them to tell them about Jesus. You can gladhand people all day and tell them about God's great and wonderful love and the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross ... But if you then turn around and start squabbling with your 'brothers' and 'sisters' and backbiting them about this or that matter, those outside the church who see this will think to themselves, "Who do those Christians think they are? They're no different than we are!"
You want proof of what I say? (sorry for using you as an example Molly) Molly has been around here in one form or another all the way back to when my wife and I first started playing here. "Miri" as she was known then, would take the two of us through Underdark leveling. Molly has not kept any secrets about her beliefs. She is not a Christian. Plainly, our actions of late haven't given her any reason to consider our message to be any better or different than any secular belief others may have. The result? A woman that I consider a close friend (as does my wife "Scarlett"), is deciding that maybe she doesn't need to be spending as much time here. How's that for a witness?
I close asking everyone who's not involved to BUTT OUT, and let Kal and the others work this issue out for themselves.
I support the decision Kal has made, because I don't know all that's involved and it is not my place to gainsay the choices that he has made. I do however also love my sister-in-Christ, Geneva and her family and it is my hope that she and Kal are able to work through their differences.
In Christ's blessing,
Ron
2 comments:
I'm sorry this response is so late, I've been contemplating it for a while, and have been very busy doing my best to serve God in what He's called me to do. My words may be a little blunt and bottom-line, because I haven't had time to really cushion them, and because given what has transpired, I feel a little honest truth is important.
I keep hearing people say "But what about people like Molly? What do she and people like her (meaning non-believers) think about all that's going on and what actions people have taken?" and yet, no-one has actually asked her. To my knowledge, the only person who has sat down with her and talked about everything that is going on is me. She's had me over to her house for dinner multiple times, and amongst our various conversations, ark always comes up. I applaud people's desire to consider how their actions witness the truth of Christ, but I think you should take the time to actually find out what is really the issue, and what is standing out the most, rather than assuming. If you, or anyone else who has asked that same question above, actually asked Molly what she thought, I think you'd be surprised. The same things that she finds to be hypocritical and un-Christlike are the same reasons why so many of us have left ark. It breaks my heart to see so many strong Christian believers, very good people overall, and people I respect, be oblivious to what God's word says about leadership and ministry, and how to respond to it. It is so disappointing that Molly has a better perspective and understanding about it than so many of the believers on AotC. The church has fallen asleep, and like someone who is suddenly woken up in the middle of the night, people are rubbing their eyes and going "wha?" while those of us who are awake are doing what God is calling us to do.
In case that first paragraph has left you wanting to hear more, allow me to elaborate. If the issue truly was a personal one just concerning Kal and Gen, then you're right, it would be no-one's business to get involved unless invited. However the moment decisions were made of a leadership nature that affect how AotC is managed, then it is no longer a personal issue that affects two people, but a ministry issue that affects everyone who considers themselves to be a part of that ministry, regardless if they are in leadership or not. A decision was made to remove one person from leadership entirely, and to pigeonhole another. That decision is one of leadership, and affects the entire ministry. Everyone who considers AotC to be more than just a game or a chatroom should desire to understand it at least in part. If the reasons were of an entirely personal nature, than people should be even more concerned that personal issues are motivations for ministerial decisions. Given that over half the staff choose to leave AotC, a place they've dedicated years of their lives serving on, because they felt that they could not serve God there, should ring an extraodinarly loud alarm bell to anyone who is at all paying attention. If those people who have given the most, and who care for AotC the most, and who know the most about the situation, feel it is necessary to completely abandon AotC in order to serve God, then there is obviously a problem bigger than a personal issue between two people, but one that many believe affect the core purpose of AotC as a ministry dedicated to God. To ignore this truth is irresponsible from a spiritual standpoint, regardless of what position a person is in on AotC itself. Sadly, many would rather gloss over things such as this, as Christians so often do, with excuses like "It doesn't involve me." "I'm not on staff." or "It's just a MUD, afterall." Those same Christians hardly think to pray and read to seek God's will about what they should do (and the Bible speaks very plainly about it), and at most offer up occasional half-hearted prayers for those who have left or remain. I'm not saying that you personally have done all or any of this, but I know many of the believers have, and I'm addressing everyone who calls themself a believer and considers AotC to be more than just a game and a chat room. Regardless of how much this applies directly to you, I challenge you to really think about everything, to seek what God's word says about His standards for leadership and what it means to follow Him, His truth and His calling, and above all, pray for everyone, for we all covet your prayers.
Galen, as I've promised, here it is.
I do disagree that those not directly involved should comment, but that's just my opinion. You sir also have greater access to speak with others such as Molly, apparently living in the same community (or at least the same state) which I do not.
I would love a chance to sit down and speak with some of those involved, but as most of those directly involved live either a plane flight or about three days drive away from me (except Kal, who I believe is somewhere here in the midwest), my chances are slim to none of being able to do so. I also face the fact that having such a conversation would be seen by some as gossiping, so I'm in a bit of a "catch-22" there.
I am aware that the situation goes beyond one or two particular incidents (one involving a Youtube type video), and calls to question motivations and the moral standards of some in authority but not knowing more than that I simply cannot respond.
I do consider Ark of the Covenant much more than just a mud. My wife and I have had the opportunity to visit with FionaRose when she was still a student at Kalamazoo College. Another player, living north of me found himself in Anderson and came to my workplace and introduced himself to me at my cash register (I'd mentioned I was the only large bearded man working in that area so I was easy to find). And when Gen had her surgery a couple of years back, we sent her flowers to cheer her along to getting well. Shoot, this very pc I'm typing on was a gift to us from Gen's friend Dejavu. So, yes, this is more than a game to me.
But if I might use the comparison to a church community, occasionally things happen that not everyone agrees with. If it is something where there is a clear wrong and it is shared with the body, the body will act accordingly. But if the details are not made known so that such decisions can be made, the rest of us are left to make what decisions we can based only upon what we do know.
No, Kal's not perfect. None of us are. But I do point out that he had "retired" at one point, and had stopped even coming on. But as I understand it, for a time there wasn't anyone that wanted to fill his shoes. Athos did for a while but for his reasons he stepped down. Kal came back because the game needed someone to be in charge and to make decisions and there wasn't anyone to do it.
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